“We Need a New Vision”: Northern Ireland’s DAERA Minister on the Future of Rural Communities

And hello and welcome to another edition of the Ferncast. It’s our third year of recordings, and this week, we’ve been pleased to say we’ve been joined by Minister for Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland, Andrew Muir. MLA as they are in the Northern Irish Executive. Could you tell us more about what your position actually does over there in Northern Ireland?

It’s good to be here, and this is an important opportunity for me to be able to talk about how we’re serving our rural communities in Northern Ireland. The Department, which I’m very proud to lead, has a wide range of responsibilities — the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs. So alongside what’s in the title, we also have lead responsibility with regards to climate change, and also in relation to, for example, waste management, and lots of issues relating to EU exit. But I am the minister with lead responsibility for Rural Affairs. And the key issue here to understand in Northern Ireland is we’re a partial power-sharing executive — four parties working together — and we all as ministers have responsibility to serve our rural communities. Within my department, we have that lead responsibility to ensure that we’re covering that area of responsibility across all of Northern Ireland, and that landscape has changed quite a lot post-EU exit, and also as a result of Covid-19 and climate change. It’s a very different landscape in terms of rural affairs in Northern Ireland.

So you’ve been the DAERA Minister since 2024 — is that right? What’s been the biggest surprise about the rural portfolio that you didn’t anticipate from the outset?

Before I became active in full-time politics, I was a councillor for ten years, and I also worked with Translink, the public service operator in terms of public transport in Northern Ireland. I was very acutely aware of the importance of rural communities, because we have three transport companies — Northern Ireland Railways, Metro which is in Belfast, and Ulsterbus. I was very conscious that a good proportion of our population is living outside those urban areas. What has become clearer to me is that as a result of EU exit and the scaling back of the Rural Development Programme, and also the changed needs for rural communities as a result of Covid-19, there’s a need to take a different approach to ensure that rural communities are better served. That’s something we’ve been taking forward in terms of a new vision for rural communities in Northern Ireland.

Do you find that post-Brexit, the position of rural communities in Northern Ireland has become more complicated?

It has indeed. As a politician, I was always in favour of remaining within the European Union, and Brexit has not worked out well for the entire United Kingdom, but we’re in the situation that we’re in. One thing that I’ve picked up is that the end of the Rural Development Programme, which was part of our membership of the European Union, has in some ways been overlooked as a result of other changes — for example the European Social Fund and the changes that came about as a result of exit. The Rural Development Programme was something that really meant quite a lot to rural communities in Northern Ireland and delivered lots of benefits. I see that when I’m out and about — very conscious of the loss of the structures around that and also the funding that related to it. So as a result of this changed landscape, my department’s been taking forward a new approach for rural communities. It’s described as Rural NI: Our New Approach, 2026 to 2041, and it’s a whole-of-government approach to rural communities. We’re looking forward to consulting about that very soon, after a lot of collaboration and engagement with key stakeholders, because we need to have a new arrangement put in place so we can better serve rural communities and the needs that they have today.

How does the Windsor Framework, the thing that Rishi Sunak brought in a few years ago, affect the position of rural communities? Not many people over this side of the water really understood it. Maybe you could shine a light on that.

No problem. The Windsor Framework is largely a trading relationship between the United Kingdom Government and the European Union as it relates to Northern Ireland. The history of Brexit is that Northern Ireland wasn’t fully considered in the run-up to it. Two former prime ministers, Tony Blair and John Major, came to Derry/Londonderry and outlined their concerns about what Brexit would mean for Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, they were ignored by the Leave campaign, and there was no credible plan for dealing with the situation. So the Windsor Framework has been put in place to deal with the issue that we share a land border with the European Union. We have unrivalled dual market access to both the EU and the UK internal market for goods. I know speaking to my Scottish and Welsh counterparts they’d give their right arm for those benefits. The Framework also has clauses which are protective in terms of diminution of rights, and that’s an important aspect. As Minister, I believe in the full, timely and faithful implementation of the Windsor Framework, because when you do a deal with your international trading partners, it’s important you stick with it. In terms of rural communities, agri-food is a key part and the key fabric of our social life within rural communities. The Windsor Framework helps to safeguard that — for example, the dairy industry, which is very much a cross-border trade. Without those protections, and that access to the EU single market and the UK internal market, that would devastate our dairy industry.

Do you think it’s actually helped a lot, or could there be improvements on the whole framework agreement?

There are opportunities for improvement. That’s why I have been actively engaging with the UK Government with success in terms of an SPS agri-food agreement, and that would allow us to address some of the issues that have been occurring in terms of friction of agri-food products between GB and NI, but also very importantly between GB and the European Union. Being able to align standards across the UK with the EU is something that is now on the horizon, and I’m glad to see that. One of the remaining issues is in relation to customs. I’ve been very clear to the UK Government — my ambition goes beyond an SPS agri-food agreement, towards wider alignment around customs arrangements, so that we can be a member of the single market with regards to customs. That would benefit the whole of the United Kingdom. One of the critical issues for me in terms of rural communities is the infrastructure that’s in place around them. We lost the Rural Development Programme, but we do have the Peace Plus Programme, which is delivering over €80 million of support — an agreement between the UK Government, the EU and the Irish Government. That’s been really key to help us energise and revitalise those rural communities. In addition, we have the City and Growth Deals, which my department is responsible for in a number of areas. We’ve come out of the EU. We have that trading relationship. We want to build upon it. We want to ease those movements in terms of agri-food goods by having common standards. We want to join the EU Customs Union — that’s something I will continue to advocate for. But we also need to consider rural communities post-Covid. More people are working from home, so there’s an increased requirement for facilities to be delivered locally — whether that’s broadband, childcare, or wider services. We need to adapt to the needs of our rural communities.

So more people are working from home and there’s been a change since Covid. How has that affected rural poverty? Your Tackling Rural Poverty and Social Isolation programme distributed nearly £3 million in micro-grants last year, but grants of £500 to £2,000 are relatively modest. Do you believe the framework is genuinely transformative, or is it essentially a piecemeal exercise?

As a result of our proposed new way forward — Rural NI: Our New Approach — we are considering what methods of support could be most effective. What has been clear to me is that the Tackling Rural Poverty and Social Isolation programme is real proof of the mantra that a small amount of money can go a long way. I’ve been meeting a lot of community organisations in rural areas and rural businesses, and seeing the benefit. It’s about government stepping in and giving that support through key interventions. Alongside that, there are wider interventions — Peace Plus, City and Growth Deals, and work from the Department for the Economy. I’m very conscious of the issue of poverty within rural areas. The Department for Communities has consulted on an anti-poverty strategy for Northern Ireland, and there’s been a lot of feedback — much of which I agree with — about needing more measurable targets. But there are other issues too, such as fuel poverty. My colleague Gordon Lyons, as Communities Minister, has been looking at that because in rural areas we’re very heavily reliant on domestic oil to heat homes and still using solid fuels. We need to provide a just transition away from that. The increase in fuel prices following Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine — and we continue to stand in solidarity with Ukraine — has affected rural communities most particularly in terms of their vulnerability to fuel poverty.

We do a lot of work in Cumbria and Scotland, and there are relatively similar temperatures and weather patterns. We’ve noticed that farming communities or people in rural areas have a higher cost of living due to the sparsity of services. How is your office intending to counteract that?

In the Northern Ireland context, cost of living is one of the key issues you’ll hear from people right across the board. We as an executive have been seeking to support that in the ways we can. We’re very conscious of the impact, and that’s why we have to balance how we look at our own budgets. I’m also very conscious in terms of food — that’s one of the key issues around poverty. That’s why as a department we launched the Food Strategy Framework and Action Plan. It’s about taking forward a whole-of-society approach to food, and one of the top priorities is dealing with people’s right to food. There’s quite a lot that needs to be done.

The right to food — how does that interact on a daily basis? How does that work?

This is a wider societal issue. You’re seeing, for example — and I’ll say in my own constituency — the number of people who contact my office looking for assistance from food banks. That is a stain on our society. I commend them for the work they’re doing. But there’s also a wider issue around food nutrition and raising awareness. There’s work being undertaken so people can be aware that you can produce healthy meals at a lower cost. There’s a role for retailers in terms of raising awareness around that. I’m very aware that the community approach is very successful. As an example, in Carrickfergus there’s a local community-owned greengrocer — people came together, bought shares, set that up. That’s a good model we’d like to see replicated in other areas.

Interesting. You mentioned fuel poverty — what measures are being put in place to help people in villages and rural communities? Is there a push towards green technology, or are more people still running on oil jet heaters?

There’s a lot of work that needs to be done. A good element of responsibility sits outside my department, and I will support my colleagues in the Department for the Economy and Communities. The recently published strategy around these issues is constructive, because one of the key interventions is in relation to insulation of homes — ensuring that when we’re heating them, it’s not going outside the home. We need to give people long-term assurance that schemes are in place to support that. There are schemes already in place, but we need to scale that up, because this makes sense not only in terms of lifting people out of fuel poverty but also in terms of our wider ambitions to decarbonise. There’s a win-win. Critical to this is for us to agree our budget — we have an opportunity to set a three-year resource and four-year capital budget in the next number of weeks, and it’s important we as an executive come together and do that.

Moving on from heating, let’s look at sustainable agriculture and farming viability. We touched on the Windsor Framework and your efforts around sustainable farming. What programmes have you got in place to bring people into farming? One of the issues around here is the average age of farmers in Cumbria is about 65. What measures are there for bringing in fresh blood?

It’s a key issue for me and my department. It does go back to leaving the EU. We’ve had to design our own farm support policies. Previously we were in the EU with the Common Agricultural Policy. What we want to address is generational renewal and building resilience within farm businesses. We’ve been piloting the Farming for the Generations initiative to provide more assistance to facilitate that. We’ll be evaluating that, then later this year rolling out the full scheme — including whether it’s necessary to provide financial incentives. This concern is particularly acute as a result of announcements about inheritance tax. People are very concerned about how to ensure generational renewal is coordinated and effective. The decision by the UK Government in relation to the family farm tax, albeit some of it has been mitigated, I would continue to call for this not to proceed. It’s caused a lot of anxiety within our farming community in Northern Ireland, which is made up of a lot of family farms.

Can you tell us more about the Nutrients Action Programme that you’ve set up in your department?

It’s a long-standing legal obligation — nothing new. Every EU member state has it, and when you’ve left the EU it’s still a requirement in law. It’s been in place and I want to commend the farmers for the work they’ve done over many years in helping us address water quality issues. But it’s clear we need to do more to improve water quality in Northern Ireland. Everyone has a role to play — not just the farming community but particularly in relation to wastewater pollution, industry, and septic tanks. We consulted on the Nutrients Action Programme in the summer of last year. I want to thank everyone who responded. We’ve set up a task and finish group with an independent chair, Karen Brosnan, and they’re due to come back to me in the spring with their recommendations. What’s core is that there needs to be a just transition for farming, not only around nutrient management but also regarding ammonia, air pollution, and greenhouse gas emissions.

I’ve read some comments regarding the plan, and people were saying it’s somehow punitive. Why would people criticise it in that sense — rather than being collaborative?

Well, it’s perhaps for you to engage with them on that. We seek to collaborate. We have four pillars in relation to improving water quality: education, incentivisation, regulation and enforcement. Let me be clear — if we’re having to resort to enforcement, that is a sign of collective failure. What we want is to ensure these problems don’t occur in the first place. That’s why we already have advisory services in place, and we’re looking to expand on-farm advice through the Sustainable Catchment Programme. We’re engaging with the Irish Government on opportunities around that, because it’s much better that we find ways forward which underlie a sustainable future for agriculture.

There’s been some comments in recent years about the UK’s largest lake, Lough Neagh, and effluents being pumped in there. What’s the latest?

Lough Neagh is the largest freshwater lake in the UK and Ireland. We’ve had three successive summers of blue-green algae blooms occurring in the lough, and that’s of great concern — not just to me but for the wider public in Northern Ireland and our international reputation. Forty per cent of our drinking water comes from Lough Neagh, and that’s why it’s critical we address this. Last summer was the first summer that the brownie fishing season didn’t really commence — a real impact on communities around the lough. We’re seeking to take action on all areas: addressing pollution, tackling climate change, fish deterrence measures, and stronger environmental protection. I’m actually gutted that my partners in government have decided to block the setting up of an independent Environmental Protection Agency in Northern Ireland. We’re the only part of the UK and Ireland that doesn’t have one. It’s important we reform the institutions so no one party can block such a clearly reasoned proposal. We’re also strengthening regulation and enforcement around sewage pollution, raising awareness around septic tank management, and passing legislation through the Assembly for stronger fines and penalties for water pollution.

How have your relations been with Defra in London? Have they supported you in your efforts?

We have our differences — in relation to inheritance tax, and the Fisheries and Coastal Growth Fund allocation — we were due to receive ten per cent and we’re only receiving three. But relationships with Defra and Secretary of State Emma Reynolds and all the various ministers, including Baroness Hyman who has designated responsibility for Northern Ireland, are excellent. We have regular engagement. Chalk and cheese compared to the previous administration under the Conservative Party. I want to thank them for their engagement and interest in Northern Ireland. We’re not going to agree on everything, but there is that constructive engagement.

So they have been more responsive than the Conservatives?

Without a doubt. We’re pursuing an SPS agri-food agreement between the UK and the EU, which is a long time coming. The previous administration weren’t prepared to pursue that. It makes sense that we align with trusted trading partners such as the EU on those standards, and I welcome that.

We’re running out of time, so I’ll try and wrap up. If you had one policy lever that you could pull, unconstrained by budgets and politics or Assembly arithmetic, what would you do to further rural Northern Ireland’s position?

What would be really key for me is we get that policy intervention I’m seeking to put in place — that future vision for rural communities, alongside significant resource and capital support. We’ve seen the benefits the Rural Development Programme delivered and the structures that ensured communities had a say. One of the critical issues affecting rural communities is wastewater capacity. It’s important we invest in that so we can stop polluting our waterways with raw sewage due to under-investment, and stop constraining housing and economic development in rural areas. My vision for rural communities is that they’re thriving, diverse, they have that investment, and they’re strong.

We have a tradition on this podcast where we ask the speaker to put out their pitch. Is there anything we haven’t asked that you wanted to tell us?

I know there are many challenges in Northern Ireland, particularly in rural communities, but I approach politics as a glass-half-full kind of person. This consultation — Rural NI: Our New Approach — is an opportunity for rural communities to have their say in terms of a positive vision going forward. I would encourage people to feed back to the consultation when it launches very soon.

Andrew Muir MLA, thank you so much for joining us this week on the Ferncast. It’s been an absolute pleasure and an honour to speak with someone of such standing.

Thank you very much. Very kind. Bye.